Reflective Urbanisms:

Mapping New York Chinatown

From 2018 to 2020, I held a third term as the CCBA president.

So, I’m the guy who’s been involved in community business since I stepped in in 1994. I never stopped. I like to use whatever formula we use. I don’t want to change it because when a new president comes in and uses a new rule, this mixes up all the associations. I hate it. That’s why I talk to everybody: Follow the rules. When you follow the rules, no one complains about you. That’s why we call this the traditional association.

+ How long has the Hip Sing Association been in this building?
The Hip Sing own four buildings in Chinatown: two on Bowery (16 and 22 Bowery) and two on Pell Street (15 and 16 Pell). The organization owns the most buildings in Chinatown.

The association’s headquarters has been at 16 Pell for a long time, at least 100 years already. The Hip Sing started in Canada in 1856. They have owned it for 100 years. We have not lost any buildings; we still have these four buildings.

+ Who are the current users or tenants of this building?
How does the Association use the spaces in the building?
The association’s office is at 15 Pell, [the building] across the street. We have meetings at the headquarters [at 16 Pell] on the second floor.

There are four floors in the building at 16 Pell.

The ground floor used to be a restaurant, and maybe a Buddhist temple a long time ago, then a restaurant, and then later on a foot massage place. They’ve given up now because of the pandemic. The second floor is the association members’ meeting place. The third floor is a dance studio. The fourth floor is also used by the Hip Sing Association for New Year’s Eve gatherings.

We used to meet on the fourth floor, but with everyone getting older, we’re meeting on the second floor. It’s a walk-up building with stairs.

+ Would you give me a brief introduction of yourself? When did you come to New York?
I left China when I was 4 years old. I came here to New York City in 1970 at 20 years old. The day I remember I stepped down, my relatives took me to the apartment – I first lived at 56 Henry Street.

I came with my mother and my brother because I’m the fourth and the first generation (born out of the U.S). With the fourth generation, I mean that my great-grandfather, grandfather, father & I were all here in New York City at the same time. Being the fourth and first generation is why I know a lot of history from my parents.

From 1970-1973 I worked at Chemical Bank, which is now Chase Manhattan Bank.
From 1973-1976, I worked at Deloitte (Huskin & Sells), a CPA firm.
In 1976, I started to make fortune cookies.

Twenty five years ago, I took care of the Eng Family [Eng Suey Sun Association]. And then later on, step by step, I started to take care of this building [Hoy Sun Ning Yung Association] and then the Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association (CCBA) building.

In 1922, over a hundred years ago, the CCBA of Newark bought a plot in a cemetery to bury the Chinese in Newark. It was managed by the Eng family in the 1970s. Around 1980, the Eng Family [Association] gave authority to New York’s Eng Family [Association] to handle it. Around 2010, we tried to sell all of the space and we bought another 100 plots.

When I came in 1970, my grandfather had already passed away. Every year I go to ching ming [sweep the tomb for the Ching Ming Festival], so when I see these stones, I know the history. The CCBA owns spaces in Evergreen (Staten Island).

I’m also a collector. I always traveled to a lot of cities for stamp shows & auctions. This is my hobby.

+ How long have you been working in Chinatown? How did you come to be connected to Chinatown?
My parents never brought me to Chinatown [when I was a child.]
When I came in 1970, I had a lot of alumni from Hong Kong. We had alumni associations in Hong Kong and in 1971, we rented a space to establish the alumni. This space [for the Tak Ming Association] still exists at 16 Mott Street. The Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association (CCBA) is the property owner. That was my first step into Chinatown. Alumni business is different from community business.

Every Saturday and Sunday, we hung out in Chinatown with the alumni. We learned a little bit of knowledge from Chinatown but we were not really involved in the community. I became involved later on because I started my business.

I started a business making fortune cookies in 1976-1977. Along with another alumni member, we took over the business from the previous owner. I sold it to him in late 1978. It was at 6 Chatham Square. Before, it used to have a liquor store in the storefront and we made fortune cookies in the back. I started another fortune cookie business, with fully automatic machines, in 1978 at 53 Chrystie. I sold the business to Wonton Foods in 1983. I was too busy and had no breaks as the machines were going seven days and seven nights a week. By then I was also doing wholesale, which I started in 1982. Major products sold were eggs and coffee. Martinson Coffee, which is famous in Hong Kong — I sold that product. At the time, all the cafes drank this coffee. By 1991, I had gotten a younger partner. I left this partner the business, minus the eggs and coffee. We split the company into two companies at 7-11 Ludlow and 23-25 Ludlow.

+ What was Chinatown like when you first arrived in the 1970s?
I went to work and my connection was mostly with the alumni. Every Saturday or Sunday we had meetings together. We didn’t go outside to do new things. Then, it was different. I was too busy.

In 1973, it felt like the situation was getting worse in Chinatown with the gangs… though they didn’t bother me with my business, and my store was outside Chinatown.

+ How have you seen the Chinatown community change over the past decades?
A lot has changed.
In 1975, the Vietnamese came here and the size of Chinatown boomed. My wife was Chinese-Vietnamese (she passed away in 2005). Between 1970 and 1980, a lot of Taiwanese came here. Around 1985, a lot of Malaysians and Singaporeans came here. At the end of the 1980s to the early 1990s, a lot of Fujianese came here.

Chinatown is changing — during that time, we expanded to the north, but we couldn’t expand westward because of the jail. We also expanded in the east. To the south, there were the projects, so we didn’t expand there. Hester, Grand Street – boom – Chinatown moved up north.

But around 2010-2015, from the north, the Americans pushed back.

+ What are your feelings about what Chinatown has been impacted since the pandemic started?
When the pandemic started, I had an appendicitis emergency. I stayed two months in the hospital and three months in a rehab center, four months resting at home and last year in January, I went back to the hospital for surgery again and then was doing better and better… It was a two-year experience.

I have nothing to say because Justin Yu, the former president of the CCBA, was the public face of COVID. He was famous because he first stepped into this title in this month. Everything shut down in Chinatown and he handled it.